F4U vs Zero a6m-zero. Italian pilot Fausto XI: Mach .89 in dive. Ironic that the prototype was powered by a British engine, considering how events transpired 5 years later. wood prop weights 200 pounds plus less than metal ones do. Dive pullouts were a hair raising experience. Prev; 1; 2; Next; Page 1 of 2 . http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal11/10801-10900/gal10810-Spitfire-Ulgur/00.shtm, http://www.thefullwiki.org/Supermarine_Spitfire_(late_Merlin_powered_variants), Corporal Frisk – Half a decade on – Corporal Frisk. Thus was born the final version of the Bf 109, the dedicated ground-attack HA-1112-M1L “Buchon” of 1954-vintage, fitted with a, you guessed it, Rolls-Royce Merlin engine. I politely pointed out that spamming a two year old post with comments is not considered proper internet etiquette. Radiators also had small armor protection. There is no doubt that the post-war Griffon-powered Spitfires in the form of the land-based F.Mk. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. i am a huge 109 fan and by far my favorite plane of the second world war. Still, the final word would go to the Messerschmitt, and in a very unlikely way. The engines of the aircrafts deserve a closer study, as these played an integral part in the development of both series. Accedi con Twitter Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Landing characteristics were also challenging, but a skilled pilot could land in a relatively short distance, using heavy braking once the tailwheel was firmly planted on the ground. At about 16,000ft the Spit 18 rolled over and dived back towards me at an impossible deflection angle, with machine guns blazing and exhaust smoke rolling out under both wings. "Spitfire Vs BF-109 Due Leggende a Confronto" (Nel 1940, due aerei combatterono ad oltranza sulla Gran Bretagna. The most notorious aspect of the Bf 109 was its appalling takeoff characteristics. oops I meant Spiteful. This is a matter of debate that arises any time aircraft aficionados gather, but it’s Saturday, and I’m slightly bored, so I feel for writing something lighter. I recommend you writing an article or forum/blog post with your arguments, and then posting the link to that one as a comment. If the Mk.IX or some other Merlin-powered one would have been objectively ‘better’, don’t you think RAF would have stuck to them? It seems Mermet gives in his book: I only recognised the RAF roundel after the Spit 18 had fired on me, when we were in the scissors engagement and I had no alternative but to fight back to save my own bacon.”, http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/spitfire/post_war.htm. http://www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.HTM MK 9 Spit vs Griffon Spit, “The Spit 9 proved to have better manoeuverability”, We broke out of a sandy mist at 10,000ft, but I could not gain close proximity to the Spit 18 due to lesser power in my Spit 9. ‘I cannot recall any Battle of Britain pilot saying the Bf 109 was better than the Spitfire – and there is no shortage of such memoirs,’ Mark continues. All bullshit – who won the war? Comparison of the Supermarine “Spitfire” Mk. I suspect a few might have wished it would be built is numbers. esapekkis 2,204 Posted March 10, 2018. esapekkis. Their rivalry started when they were designed at the same time in the mid-1930s. The Spit 9 proved to have better manoeuverability and I was able to get into an ideal firing position. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. As such, the long 20 mm guns with their faster rate of fire and their higher V0 often held an edge in fighter on fighter combat, especially in the hands of average non-ace pilots. Study the plane and the pilot if possible, but shoot down the pilot was the goal. “Japanese knowhow”, “German Engineering”. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Prev; 1; 2; Next; Page 2 of 2 . both of them became difficult to control laterally in roll about 400mph. 109 K-4 would have got wood prop 459 mph, still improving late war, no comnparison, 109 all the way. After the war, the Czechoslovak aircraft industry had to find a way to supply the country’s reborn air force with fighters. Der Flügel schränkte seinen Blickwinkel nach vorn unten stärker ein als bei dem deutschen Jäger. More interesting is the fact, that in this tests, which had not the aim to estimate the highest mach number or to test the structure, they reached Steve. TAS firstname.lastname@example.org However the spitfire by the end of the war were far superior to the bf-109’s. By Allied standards, the control harmony was poor, a problem that was amplified by the inexplicable lack of a rudder-trimming device. In capable hands, both aircraft could more than hold their own against any aerial adversaries. They used stuff from American & German fighters, laminar flow wing, & raised rudder pedals & angled seat like ME 109 & chains & cable replaced from stick to ailerons like FW 190, these plane’s didn’t work out, but the attempt was made. Let’s take it from the beginning: Is your argument that the increased power was absorbed better by the Bf 109 than by the Spitfire, and that the fact that earlier mark Spitfires had better handling characteristics than late-mark ones made them superior fighters? How was (I to know this was 2 plus yrs old? 1. Who each pilot was, the training, experience and personality that accompanied each individual pilot. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. The Spitfires were powerless. The Destruction of Army Group Center, 1944. An interesting point is that by the time the F.24 was delivered in 1948, the F-86 Sabre was already flying. O accedi con uno di questi servizi. He used this aircraft to achieve at lease two of his 9 kills in Griffon engined Spitfires to become the only Mk. Spitfire Vs Bf 109 (troppo vecchio per rispondere) Sergio Bugger 2003-10-14 08:29:40 UTC. Spitfire Mk. They started in earnest in early 1943 in the Wiener Neustadt works. 27° +/-3° up and 24° +/-3° down. It was a short burst, maybe 10 shells from each cannon, but I saw the bomber explode & begin to burn. The Huns, knowing the Spits quality in dogfight, carefully avoided taking them on, and the poor Spits had neither the speed nor the range to force the new German fighters to fight. The Suomen Ilmavoimat (Finnish Air Force). . The internet has many different aviation related pages, I am sure you will find a suitable one if you look around. G-10 elevator travel different than G-6, this means more bang for the buck when one pulls on the stick. Now there was 1 experimental Spit that hit 600 mph in a dive, it was a writ off afterwards, wings bent fuselage wrecked. It had high explosive power”, I preferred three guns in the center of the aircraft, right along the longitudinal axis. One of the major problems was that the young state lacked any kind of combat aircraft, and due to an arms embargo, acquiring them proved difficult. In the process, horsepower was increased from the prototype’s 695-hp Rolls- Royce Merlin to the 2,030-hp Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine in the Bf 109K. A number of performance improvements were made during 1940, including the use of 100-octane fuel. It also makes power faster — it spins up right away. It was both cheaper and faster to build than the Spitfire (those beatiful eliptical wings were a real problem when it came to mass production). I opened with the 20’s at 500 yards. All in all, it would most probably have slipped off into the pages of aviation history largely unnoticed, if not for developments in the middle east. Finnish blogger in reserve, defence and national security. Nr. And now for some out-of-schedule aviation geekiness: Yesterday I encoutnered an off-hand comment about whether the Spitfire or the Messerschmitt (understood to be the Bf 109) was the superior fighter. That’s what its design speed was, but its actual capability was limited to 400 because the airframe went solid at 400. By contrast, the later 109’s had 13 mm machine guns with exploding bullets on 1/1/10th second delay and 30 mm cannon which was decided to be best weapon fitted to any fighter in WW 2 by Tony Williams. Link the MK 14 Spit gun data However, of the (circa) seven kills attributed to the Avia in Israeli hands, at least one is confirmed as being a Royal Egyptian Air Force Spitfire. improved propellers were being developed when the war ended which would have boosted the speed to 727 km/h (452 mph), and 741 km/h (459 mph) was expected with an experimental swept-back propeller design. The perfect fighter was created when German technicians put a DB 605 engine on a Spitfire recovered after a crash. So one must understand operational Spits were not the same thing at all. Cancel Reply. THE WAR OF THE SPANISH SUCCESSION – FRANCE, Prokhorovka – the unknown clash of the Great Patriotic War. Assuming both the pilots are at the same skill level, both planes are at their final pre-1946 model, and fully upgraded. Share Followers 4. It wasn’t practical to try and make it go faster. Better sustained turn & dive pullout. There was yet another chapter in the story of the Bf 109. “managed to shoot down (to?). The Aces Talk page 220.. By 1939 the first production model, the Bf 109E, was introduced, featuring a bigger engine and heavier armament. Compared to the Bf 109, the Spitfire had a more straightforward development, with the engine forever associated with the aircraft being the Rolls-Royce Merlin. The aircraft served in every theater in which the Germans fought and was used by many nations allied to Germany. Permalink. The DB 605 was the same engine block as the DB 601, it was just bored out, so the 109 did not have the same overweight issue the later Spit did. Seems like it came down to several things. Concepiti attorno alla metà degli anni Trenta, percorsero la loro strada combattendo per l’intera durata della seconda guerra mondiale, terminando con capacità che nessuno dei loro progettisti avrebbe mai potuto prevedere per le proprie creazioni. During the latter part of the war, Spain had secured license production rights of the Bf 109G from Germany, but they too found that the DB 605 where not available. Johnny Johnson; After flying the Mk. Ernst-Georg Altnorthoff, at Achmer after suffering damage during the 21 March 1945 air raid. XIV for the first time Johnnie Johnson said that it was a nice and fast aeroplane, which wasn’t a Spitfire any longer. Fu una lotta che doveva durare cinque anni, estendendosi ai campi di battaglia This powered the prototype (as well as the early Spitfire Mk I in the Battle of Britain), and in refined form it powered the Mk VIII that roamed the skies of Burma in 1945. 33° +/-3° up and 34° +/-3° down, and As such, future such comments will unfortunately have to be banned. The ability of the Spitfire’s airframe to accept progressively more powerful engines was a major factor in its continued success. Also G-10 had electronic ignition like P-51 so one could re-start the motor in mid air.. The Spitfire was a pilot’s airplane—a very responsive aircraft with superb control harmony that gave the pilot plenty of feedback as manoeuvre limits were approached. Mach 0,email@example.com For what it’s worth, there is one on Jim Richmond’s personal Cub. Also please don't come on here saying AMERICA/ BRITAIN IS BEST BLARGHHHH SPITFIRE. Mk 24, good fighter bomber, new tail made aiming much better. mount of the CO, Sqn Ldr Ray Harries. Subsequent versions carried much more fuel, increasing range to a respectable 2,000 miles. Constable and Toliver, 1977. Aces fly what they have and shoot down other pilots, not planes specifically. Alternatively try to ambush them as much as possible. As a fighter, the diminutive craft flew fast and maneuvered well, features that helped secure German air superiority at the start of World War II. This original German test document refers to dive tests of 109s with the tall tail. The oil pan was made from roughly 1 quarter inch steel, armored in other words, to protect against ground fire. They carried two F.24 cameras and were 10–15 mph faster than standard Spitfires. The Bf 109F ‘Fredrich’ probably held a slight edge over contemporary Spitfires when it came out, especially over the North African desert, were the Messerschmitt’s dust covers hampered its performance less than the corresponding items on the Spitfire. There was only one Wing of three Spitfire XIV Squadrons and the rest were equipped with Spitfire IXs or Spit XVIs (Spit IXs with Rolls-Royce engines built by Packard in the U.S.A.). A new engine had to be found if production was to continue. Shmo11000 5 Posted June 14, 2016. By Shmo11000, June 14, 2016 in Air Battles. later 109’s also had a 3 & 1/2 inch thick windscreen, P-51 & Spit I think retained thin ones. At 300 yards I opened with the 30’s. http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/art … s/#109hard. Spitfire Mk IX versus Me 109 G A Performance Comparison . Page 41, the G-10 is considered the easiest to fly because of the longer tailwheel. As the Bf 109G had been produced in the country during the German occupation, it was a natural choice. The resulting aircraft, dubbed the Avia S-199, was probably the worst version of the whole Bf 109-family to reach production. It served in every theater during World War II and fought with distinction during the defense of Malta. I also find it interesting that some of your anecdotes actually support mine rather than your point (“Mk 24, good fighter bomber, new tail made aiming much better.”, “After flying the Mk. The layout of the Jumo-engine also meant that the fearsome 30 mm cannon that had been firing through the propeller hub on the Bf 109 G/K had to be discarded. Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. At cruising speeds, the Bf 109 was generally considered delightful to fly, but its controls became very heavy as speed increased. The prototype flew in 1935 as a rather angular, low-wing monoplane with a fully enclosed cockpit and narrow-track landing gear. You have dug up a 2½ year old post, and now posted fifteen comments on that one, trying to prove a point that remains somewhat unclear to me. Almost one in five 109s produced were written off in landing accidents, with an associated loss of pilots. Fu una lotta che doveva durare cinque anni, estendendosi ai campi di battaglia di Francia, Malta, Africa settentrionale, Italia e, infine, della Germania. BF 109 VS Spitfire BF 109 VS Spitfire. Its only real fault was a relative lack of range on internal fuel (approximately 490 miles for a Mk.1, 660 miles for a Mk.VIII/IX with fuselage tank). http://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/i … 23107.html, G-14 had enlarged rudder pedals and unbalanced elevators for better dive pulkllout. , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarin … al_history. Accordling to Ludwig Bölkow as quoted in the above book, the Me 109K had a reduced ground angle to improve handling, indicated as 12 degrees in one drawing and as 11.9 degrees in another. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. max. Change ). O accedi con uno di questi servizi. Fw-190 vs Bf-109 bf-109. In fact, the Spitfire and the Bf 109 were amongst the first mature fighters to discard the biplane design in favor of the single low-mounted wing that has since dominated the world of fighter aircraft. The lack of resources and the need for more weapons for the German forces prevented any major upgrade for the 109 instead more were built to meet the needs of the Air Force. http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~gmturner/aircraft/spitfire_xii/spitfire_xii.htm, http://thegreatcanadianmodelbuildersweb … 9-k-4.html.
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